1 00:00:08,210 --> 00:00:06,170 all right he is here the great Mick West 2 00:00:10,970 --> 00:00:08,220 very excited to have you back on the 3 00:00:12,950 --> 00:00:10,980 show to talk about these issues which I 4 00:00:15,230 --> 00:00:12,960 feel like nobody knows more about than 5 00:00:17,090 --> 00:00:15,240 you how have you been sir I've been 6 00:00:18,830 --> 00:00:17,100 doing good it's interesting times and 7 00:00:21,410 --> 00:00:18,840 I've been quite busy 8 00:00:23,689 --> 00:00:21,420 well you know I wonder if I maybe I 9 00:00:25,189 --> 00:00:23,699 missed it but this latest story that 10 00:00:27,650 --> 00:00:25,199 we're going to talk about this this guy 11 00:00:30,290 --> 00:00:27,660 David grush it seems like the biggest 12 00:00:32,150 --> 00:00:30,300 thing since was it two years ago where 13 00:00:33,950 --> 00:00:32,160 all those videos came out from the Navy 14 00:00:37,010 --> 00:00:33,960 or have there been a bunch of other 15 00:00:39,229 --> 00:00:37,020 stories on UFOs or whatever we call them 16 00:00:40,729 --> 00:00:39,239 now uh that we've missed yeah it's 17 00:00:42,770 --> 00:00:40,739 actually been about five years ago now 18 00:00:45,530 --> 00:00:42,780 since the like the New York Times piece 19 00:00:47,270 --> 00:00:45,540 uh which was you know also Leslie Keane 20 00:00:49,190 --> 00:00:47,280 and Ralph Blumenthal same two authors 21 00:00:53,029 --> 00:00:49,200 who wrote the debrief piece about Dave 22 00:00:55,610 --> 00:00:53,039 Crush so yeah this is I I think you know 23 00:00:57,709 --> 00:00:55,620 if this is true what is being said then 24 00:00:59,510 --> 00:00:57,719 it's definitely bigger than that and so 25 00:01:01,130 --> 00:00:59,520 you know there's a lot more interest and 26 00:01:04,189 --> 00:01:01,140 also a lot more scrutiny and I think it 27 00:01:07,010 --> 00:01:04,199 really deserves a lot more scrutiny 28 00:01:10,070 --> 00:01:07,020 um why do you say that if this is true 29 00:01:12,530 --> 00:01:10,080 first of all and also why would this 30 00:01:15,230 --> 00:01:12,540 deserve more scrutiny than past stories 31 00:01:18,350 --> 00:01:15,240 leaks videos tapes 32 00:01:20,090 --> 00:01:18,360 well if you look back at uh you know the 33 00:01:22,910 --> 00:01:20,100 previous story say the New York Times 34 00:01:26,450 --> 00:01:22,920 story of uh 2017 it was I think December 35 00:01:28,609 --> 00:01:26,460 2017. and uh that was that was written 36 00:01:30,350 --> 00:01:28,619 by Leslie Keane and Ralph Blumenthal uh 37 00:01:33,010 --> 00:01:30,360 but they they essentially brought 38 00:01:36,050 --> 00:01:33,020 receipts they they brought these videos 39 00:01:38,030 --> 00:01:36,060 of uh of craft which were you know 40 00:01:41,749 --> 00:01:38,040 essentially official Navy videos that 41 00:01:43,850 --> 00:01:41,759 were unidentified flying objects uh and 42 00:01:46,730 --> 00:01:43,860 they they had an interview with uh Lu 43 00:01:49,609 --> 00:01:46,740 Elizondo who did actually work in some 44 00:01:52,190 --> 00:01:49,619 capacity on you know essentially some 45 00:01:54,950 --> 00:01:52,200 type of UFO investigation program 46 00:01:56,450 --> 00:01:54,960 uh and and so they they have kind of a 47 00:01:59,389 --> 00:01:56,460 lot more back then than they do now 48 00:02:02,870 --> 00:01:59,399 right now we have essentially one person 49 00:02:06,109 --> 00:02:02,880 we have Dave grosh telling us that other 50 00:02:08,570 --> 00:02:06,119 people have told him that we have a 51 00:02:11,089 --> 00:02:08,580 reverse engineering program for crashed 52 00:02:13,850 --> 00:02:11,099 alien spacecraft essentially and that we 53 00:02:17,210 --> 00:02:13,860 have recovered alien bodies from those 54 00:02:21,229 --> 00:02:17,220 crash spacecraft and uh you know we we 55 00:02:24,470 --> 00:02:21,239 have a very limited uh set of Snippets 56 00:02:27,110 --> 00:02:24,480 of interviews with him uh with this 57 00:02:28,610 --> 00:02:27,120 journalist Ross colfhart uh who's an 58 00:02:31,190 --> 00:02:28,620 Australian journalist who's done a lot 59 00:02:34,309 --> 00:02:31,200 of Stories on on the UFO culture 60 00:02:36,350 --> 00:02:34,319 uh and we know that he's uh they've been 61 00:02:37,490 --> 00:02:36,360 working together for some time and 62 00:02:42,290 --> 00:02:37,500 they've been talking to other people 63 00:02:45,050 --> 00:02:42,300 like I've heard that uh Dave grosh uh 64 00:02:47,030 --> 00:02:45,060 has been to the Canadian government and 65 00:02:50,390 --> 00:02:47,040 to talk to members of parliament of the 66 00:02:52,729 --> 00:02:50,400 Canadian uh Parliament uh about this 67 00:02:53,690 --> 00:02:52,739 thing and a kind of a kind of a Road 68 00:02:55,309 --> 00:02:53,700 Show 69 00:02:58,009 --> 00:02:55,319 where he's been going around with people 70 00:02:59,930 --> 00:02:58,019 like Gary Nolan and maybe luellizondo 71 00:03:03,170 --> 00:02:59,940 people like that so there's this small 72 00:03:06,710 --> 00:03:03,180 group of people who are kind of relaying 73 00:03:09,890 --> 00:03:06,720 this uh this narrative but 74 00:03:13,250 --> 00:03:09,900 really all we have so far is essentially 75 00:03:16,190 --> 00:03:13,260 hearsay you know we have someone who's 76 00:03:17,869 --> 00:03:16,200 credential you know he worked in the uh 77 00:03:19,670 --> 00:03:17,879 intelligence community and you have 78 00:03:21,470 --> 00:03:19,680 clearances and there are other people 79 00:03:24,050 --> 00:03:21,480 who will vouch for him 80 00:03:27,649 --> 00:03:24,060 but we don't have any of the documents 81 00:03:31,309 --> 00:03:27,659 we don't have any photo evidence and we 82 00:03:33,530 --> 00:03:31,319 he himself Dave grush hasn't even seen 83 00:03:36,770 --> 00:03:33,540 the photos hasn't seen the photos of the 84 00:03:39,649 --> 00:03:36,780 supposed craft uh so you know there's a 85 00:03:42,649 --> 00:03:39,659 lot of questions there and you know I 86 00:03:44,630 --> 00:03:42,659 think over the next few days and weeks 87 00:03:46,309 --> 00:03:44,640 we'll hopefully learn some answers to 88 00:03:49,190 --> 00:03:46,319 that 89 00:03:50,330 --> 00:03:49,200 Dave grosh apparently 90 00:03:52,130 --> 00:03:50,340 you know he sounds like a really 91 00:03:54,530 --> 00:03:52,140 credible guy he's a former combat 92 00:03:56,509 --> 00:03:54,540 officer in Afghanistan he's a veteran of 93 00:03:58,610 --> 00:03:56,519 the national geospatial 94 00:04:00,410 --> 00:03:58,620 intelligence agency which I didn't know 95 00:04:02,570 --> 00:04:00,420 existed and the national reconnaissance 96 00:04:04,369 --> 00:04:02,580 office he served as the reconnaissance 97 00:04:06,890 --> 00:04:04,379 office's representative to the 98 00:04:10,929 --> 00:04:06,900 unidentified aerial phenomena task force 99 00:04:14,390 --> 00:04:10,939 from 19 to 21 2019. from late 21 to 22 100 00:04:16,370 --> 00:04:14,400 he was the nga's co-lead for UAP 101 00:04:21,289 --> 00:04:16,380 analysis and its representative to the 102 00:04:24,370 --> 00:04:21,299 task force and who would know more than 103 00:04:27,350 --> 00:04:24,380 this guy about what the government knows 104 00:04:28,670 --> 00:04:27,360 about these unidentified aerial 105 00:04:30,950 --> 00:04:28,680 phenomena 106 00:04:33,170 --> 00:04:30,960 well you'd think the the head of the UAP 107 00:04:35,990 --> 00:04:33,180 task force would uh perhaps the head of 108 00:04:38,270 --> 00:04:36,000 Arrow uh perhaps uh the people who 109 00:04:42,710 --> 00:04:38,280 testified to Congress already like Scott 110 00:04:45,050 --> 00:04:42,720 Moultrie uh people who you know do have 111 00:04:47,030 --> 00:04:45,060 clearances people who are actually 112 00:04:49,909 --> 00:04:47,040 working on these things now you know 113 00:04:52,189 --> 00:04:49,919 Dave grush is retired uh from the the 114 00:04:53,770 --> 00:04:52,199 service and he's working on some other 115 00:04:56,870 --> 00:04:53,780 job in Colorado 116 00:04:58,550 --> 00:04:56,880 uh so there's a lot of people he's a 117 00:05:00,350 --> 00:04:58,560 young guy I think he's he's quite young 118 00:05:01,969 --> 00:05:00,360 he's like 35 or something there's lots 119 00:05:04,670 --> 00:05:01,979 more people who have been in the 120 00:05:06,230 --> 00:05:04,680 government uh uh and the military a lot 121 00:05:07,730 --> 00:05:06,240 longer than he have and people who would 122 00:05:10,129 --> 00:05:07,740 know a lot more about these programs 123 00:05:12,830 --> 00:05:10,139 than him and you know as he has said 124 00:05:15,050 --> 00:05:12,840 himself he never worked on the programs 125 00:05:18,710 --> 00:05:15,060 he never worked on the crash recovery 126 00:05:19,670 --> 00:05:18,720 programs he he says he knows people who 127 00:05:22,070 --> 00:05:19,680 did 128 00:05:25,490 --> 00:05:22,080 but when he was asked the other day our 129 00:05:29,749 --> 00:05:25,500 news Nation about what evidence was 130 00:05:32,510 --> 00:05:29,759 there that these craft were crashed 131 00:05:34,310 --> 00:05:32,520 alien technology what he came up with 132 00:05:36,890 --> 00:05:34,320 was essentially the kind of the old 133 00:05:40,790 --> 00:05:36,900 talking points that we've heard before 134 00:05:45,110 --> 00:05:40,800 in in UFO culture he said that there 135 00:05:48,170 --> 00:05:45,120 were metals of unusual isotopic ratios 136 00:05:50,930 --> 00:05:48,180 and normally on on Earth 137 00:05:52,850 --> 00:05:50,940 when you dig metal out of the ground it 138 00:05:55,670 --> 00:05:52,860 comes in a specific ratio of like the 139 00:05:58,010 --> 00:05:55,680 two types of of that metal or maybe two 140 00:06:00,290 --> 00:05:58,020 or three types is metal can be in 141 00:06:02,870 --> 00:06:00,300 different isotopes which is just a 142 00:06:04,689 --> 00:06:02,880 slightly different uh configuration of 143 00:06:07,249 --> 00:06:04,699 the of that metal 144 00:06:09,290 --> 00:06:07,259 uh and you know when you dig it out of 145 00:06:11,510 --> 00:06:09,300 the ground it's in a specific ratio so 146 00:06:14,090 --> 00:06:11,520 it's kind of like a signature of whether 147 00:06:16,490 --> 00:06:14,100 it's terrestrial or not now you can 148 00:06:19,790 --> 00:06:16,500 actually make metals have different 149 00:06:21,170 --> 00:06:19,800 ratios of of their their Isotopes but 150 00:06:22,430 --> 00:06:21,180 you have to kind of engineer it you'd 151 00:06:24,590 --> 00:06:22,440 have to mix the different Metals 152 00:06:26,749 --> 00:06:24,600 Isotopes together to get a specific 153 00:06:30,050 --> 00:06:26,759 ratio so the evidence he comes up with 154 00:06:32,450 --> 00:06:30,060 is is something that doesn't prove that 155 00:06:34,309 --> 00:06:32,460 it's from off world it's something that 156 00:06:36,830 --> 00:06:34,319 could have been made on this planet and 157 00:06:40,189 --> 00:06:36,840 then he mentioned something about 158 00:06:43,029 --> 00:06:40,199 um uh Metals heavy metals with high 159 00:06:46,129 --> 00:06:43,039 atomic numbers in in odd configurations 160 00:06:48,350 --> 00:06:46,139 and that really just sounds like this 161 00:06:50,270 --> 00:06:48,360 this little chip of metal that people 162 00:06:52,610 --> 00:06:50,280 have been talking about for I think 163 00:06:54,529 --> 00:06:52,620 decades now I think it goes back to Art 164 00:06:56,809 --> 00:06:54,539 Bell the art doll radio show when people 165 00:06:58,969 --> 00:06:56,819 oh yeah anonymously send him in like 166 00:07:01,790 --> 00:06:58,979 bits of metal that they said they'd 167 00:07:04,309 --> 00:07:01,800 found with with a ridiculous backstories 168 00:07:07,309 --> 00:07:04,319 about you know telepathy and contact 169 00:07:08,629 --> 00:07:07,319 with aliens and stuff like that but this 170 00:07:10,909 --> 00:07:08,639 bit of metal has been floating around 171 00:07:14,029 --> 00:07:10,919 it's it's a little triangular piece of 172 00:07:16,629 --> 00:07:14,039 metal and it's uh layers uh zinc 173 00:07:19,850 --> 00:07:16,639 magnesium and bismuth and zinc and 174 00:07:21,469 --> 00:07:19,860 bismuth are heavy metals and bismuth has 175 00:07:24,230 --> 00:07:21,479 a high atomic number so that kind of 176 00:07:26,809 --> 00:07:24,240 matches what he just described but this 177 00:07:28,490 --> 00:07:26,819 isn't anything new this is just the type 178 00:07:31,070 --> 00:07:28,500 of thing that you know people are being 179 00:07:32,870 --> 00:07:31,080 claiming as evidence for for decades but 180 00:07:34,189 --> 00:07:32,880 it never really went anywhere because 181 00:07:36,529 --> 00:07:34,199 these are things that could be 182 00:07:39,589 --> 00:07:36,539 manufactured on Earth so the evidence 183 00:07:41,089 --> 00:07:39,599 that he had that they're aliens is you 184 00:07:42,230 --> 00:07:41,099 know just the same old stuff that we've 185 00:07:45,170 --> 00:07:42,240 heard before 186 00:07:47,150 --> 00:07:45,180 and yeah what about the bodies I mean if 187 00:07:49,850 --> 00:07:47,160 you've got to crash daily and craft with 188 00:07:51,529 --> 00:07:49,860 aliens in it surely that should be the 189 00:07:53,510 --> 00:07:51,539 best evidence that we've been visited by 190 00:07:57,790 --> 00:07:53,520 aliens but you know it's just this old 191 00:08:04,670 --> 00:08:01,610 Leslie Keane and this other uh gentleman 192 00:08:05,809 --> 00:08:04,680 who wrote this latest piece for the 193 00:08:08,629 --> 00:08:05,819 debrief 194 00:08:10,129 --> 00:08:08,639 Ralph Blumenthal you mentioned several 195 00:08:12,050 --> 00:08:10,139 other names probably most people 196 00:08:14,450 --> 00:08:12,060 listening I'm not familiar with most of 197 00:08:16,850 --> 00:08:14,460 those other names that you mentioned but 198 00:08:18,830 --> 00:08:16,860 what about Leslie I mean where does her 199 00:08:21,589 --> 00:08:18,840 credibility lie I remember reading that 200 00:08:24,589 --> 00:08:21,599 I think like 35 page New Yorker story 201 00:08:26,270 --> 00:08:24,599 which included you in it and I think 202 00:08:28,249 --> 00:08:26,280 that's how I discovered your work but 203 00:08:29,809 --> 00:08:28,259 you know where where does her what tell 204 00:08:32,810 --> 00:08:29,819 me a little bit about her past do you 205 00:08:34,909 --> 00:08:32,820 think she's generally arguing in in good 206 00:08:36,469 --> 00:08:34,919 faith with with these articles that 207 00:08:38,029 --> 00:08:36,479 she's been on this beat for a very long 208 00:08:39,949 --> 00:08:38,039 time I don't know this other fellow that 209 00:08:43,190 --> 00:08:39,959 she co-wrote it with 210 00:08:46,250 --> 00:08:43,200 yeah I think she is uh both her and and 211 00:08:48,769 --> 00:08:46,260 Ralph Blumenthal I think believe in what 212 00:08:51,889 --> 00:08:48,779 they write uh but I think their their 213 00:08:54,769 --> 00:08:51,899 belief in in the broader picture of the 214 00:08:56,110 --> 00:08:54,779 you know they both believe uh that there 215 00:08:58,550 --> 00:08:56,120 probably are some kind of 216 00:09:00,710 --> 00:08:58,560 extraterrestrials or or some other 217 00:09:03,769 --> 00:09:00,720 non-human intelligence and it covers a 218 00:09:06,470 --> 00:09:03,779 variety of things uh is visiting us with 219 00:09:09,410 --> 00:09:06,480 with UFOs uh the her other author Ralph 220 00:09:13,730 --> 00:09:09,420 Blumenthal as a big fan of a 221 00:09:16,130 --> 00:09:13,740 psychiatrist called John Mack who was 222 00:09:17,530 --> 00:09:16,140 really interested in abductions and he 223 00:09:19,310 --> 00:09:17,540 would interview lots of people about 224 00:09:20,870 --> 00:09:19,320 abductions and people who had been 225 00:09:22,490 --> 00:09:20,880 visited by aliens you know people 226 00:09:24,650 --> 00:09:22,500 sometimes there are mass sightings of 227 00:09:26,269 --> 00:09:24,660 aliens by school children in a 228 00:09:27,889 --> 00:09:26,279 schoolyard here there's no real evidence 229 00:09:30,170 --> 00:09:27,899 it happened but the school kids said he 230 00:09:32,570 --> 00:09:30,180 did and he interviews them and he he's 231 00:09:35,150 --> 00:09:32,580 one of these people who believes in it 232 00:09:37,910 --> 00:09:35,160 and yeah Ralph blumenthal's book was 233 00:09:40,130 --> 00:09:37,920 called the believer about John Mack and 234 00:09:43,370 --> 00:09:40,140 I think that kind of that idea of 235 00:09:46,070 --> 00:09:43,380 someone being a believer in in all these 236 00:09:47,990 --> 00:09:46,080 Testament is is something that typifies 237 00:09:50,570 --> 00:09:48,000 the UFO community and I don't think 238 00:09:53,870 --> 00:09:50,580 Leslie Keane is an exception like she's 239 00:09:56,389 --> 00:09:53,880 been writing about ufology and to some 240 00:09:59,150 --> 00:09:56,399 degree the Paranormal uh for quite some 241 00:10:00,470 --> 00:09:59,160 time uh her last book was about life 242 00:10:02,870 --> 00:10:00,480 after death I think that might have been 243 00:10:04,550 --> 00:10:02,880 what it was actually called and she 244 00:10:08,750 --> 00:10:04,560 wrote a book before that which is about 245 00:10:10,490 --> 00:10:08,760 I think UFOs generals and and the 246 00:10:12,530 --> 00:10:10,500 military something along those lines but 247 00:10:14,150 --> 00:10:12,540 it was about how she talked to people 248 00:10:17,090 --> 00:10:14,160 high up in the military who believed 249 00:10:20,269 --> 00:10:17,100 that UFOs were real and you know hence 250 00:10:23,690 --> 00:10:20,279 she saw that as being evidence that the 251 00:10:26,449 --> 00:10:23,700 UFOs and aliens are real so you know all 252 00:10:28,850 --> 00:10:26,459 these people that are involved in 253 00:10:32,329 --> 00:10:28,860 promoting and writing and distributing 254 00:10:36,110 --> 00:10:32,339 this story right now uh are people who 255 00:10:39,050 --> 00:10:36,120 have a pre-existing belief that uh 256 00:10:41,389 --> 00:10:39,060 aliens are visiting us I think it's you 257 00:10:43,610 --> 00:10:41,399 know for me it's most important to know 258 00:10:46,550 --> 00:10:43,620 the source of any information which is 259 00:10:47,930 --> 00:10:46,560 why you are here uh per book by the way 260 00:10:49,790 --> 00:10:47,940 that book you reference I think is 261 00:10:52,850 --> 00:10:49,800 titled surviving death a journalist 262 00:10:54,769 --> 00:10:52,860 investigates evidence for an afterlife 263 00:10:57,410 --> 00:10:54,779 yes yes that's the one that's the latest 264 00:10:59,690 --> 00:10:57,420 book and uh yeah she's she's been into 265 00:11:02,630 --> 00:10:59,700 uh that type of thing she goes to 266 00:11:05,210 --> 00:11:02,640 seances uh as a journalist but you know 267 00:11:06,949 --> 00:11:05,220 she she uh essentially seems to think 268 00:11:08,870 --> 00:11:06,959 that there's something to them when you 269 00:11:12,170 --> 00:11:08,880 go to a seance like a medium 270 00:11:14,509 --> 00:11:12,180 uh materializes uh things and there are 271 00:11:16,310 --> 00:11:14,519 disembodied hands touching you and you 272 00:11:17,930 --> 00:11:16,320 know from her account so that she seems 273 00:11:20,750 --> 00:11:17,940 to believe that there's some legitimacy 274 00:11:22,670 --> 00:11:20,760 to that which it doesn't seem like a 275 00:11:24,410 --> 00:11:22,680 super scientific way of looking at 276 00:11:27,710 --> 00:11:24,420 things and I think perhaps some of that 277 00:11:29,389 --> 00:11:27,720 that attitude might carry over to her 278 00:11:32,449 --> 00:11:29,399 her work on UFOs 279 00:11:35,930 --> 00:11:32,459 you're a scientific guy I'm a guy who 280 00:11:38,509 --> 00:11:35,940 likes scientific guys and I think what 281 00:11:39,410 --> 00:11:38,519 you're saying is if I had some kind of 282 00:11:41,930 --> 00:11:39,420 uh 283 00:11:44,090 --> 00:11:41,940 an experience a paranormal experience 284 00:11:45,769 --> 00:11:44,100 and I believed I have it and I mean I 285 00:11:47,750 --> 00:11:45,779 know a lot of people who do I wish I had 286 00:11:49,430 --> 00:11:47,760 one I always wish I'll sleep in a Civil 287 00:11:52,069 --> 00:11:49,440 War battlefield to see a ghost I really 288 00:11:53,810 --> 00:11:52,079 want that to happen yeah but the point 289 00:11:56,810 --> 00:11:53,820 of what you're saying is people can have 290 00:12:00,769 --> 00:11:56,820 those experiences and they can 110 291 00:12:03,590 --> 00:12:00,779 believe that it happened but science has 292 00:12:05,269 --> 00:12:03,600 been unable to prove those types of 293 00:12:07,670 --> 00:12:05,279 things like the hands touching your body 294 00:12:10,130 --> 00:12:07,680 or pretty much anything like that 295 00:12:11,329 --> 00:12:10,140 paranormal experiences is that way I'm 296 00:12:13,850 --> 00:12:11,339 hearing you say 297 00:12:16,910 --> 00:12:13,860 yeah I mean the thing with say answers 298 00:12:20,389 --> 00:12:16,920 for example is that it's it's got a long 299 00:12:23,750 --> 00:12:20,399 long history of charlatans and a seance 300 00:12:25,190 --> 00:12:23,760 basically is a stage magician uh 301 00:12:27,290 --> 00:12:25,200 operating with the great Advantage 302 00:12:29,870 --> 00:12:27,300 usually of it being in a very dimly lit 303 00:12:32,329 --> 00:12:29,880 or an entirely dark room uh just 304 00:12:34,850 --> 00:12:32,339 performing magic tricks uh to usually to 305 00:12:37,670 --> 00:12:34,860 a paying audience who who think that he 306 00:12:40,430 --> 00:12:37,680 is uh he or she is connecting uh them 307 00:12:42,829 --> 00:12:40,440 with dead Spirits so it's there's a long 308 00:12:45,410 --> 00:12:42,839 history of of people faking this and 309 00:12:48,350 --> 00:12:45,420 there's also a long history of uh of 310 00:12:50,030 --> 00:12:48,360 people exposing it to like debunkers and 311 00:12:53,210 --> 00:12:50,040 Skeptics like going back to Harry 312 00:12:55,430 --> 00:12:53,220 Houdini he Harry Houdini it's he was a 313 00:12:57,889 --> 00:12:55,440 stage magician but he never claims to be 314 00:13:01,069 --> 00:12:57,899 actually performing magic and he got 315 00:13:03,470 --> 00:13:01,079 quite angry at uh these these uh there's 316 00:13:06,050 --> 00:13:03,480 mediums and he would go to the sciences 317 00:13:07,310 --> 00:13:06,060 and try to expose them uh so yeah 318 00:13:07,850 --> 00:13:07,320 there's there's 319 00:13:11,690 --> 00:13:07,860 um 320 00:13:13,730 --> 00:13:11,700 a credulity I think that comes with uh 321 00:13:16,129 --> 00:13:13,740 with like believing in subjects like 322 00:13:19,970 --> 00:13:16,139 that which perhaps doesn't make you an 323 00:13:21,530 --> 00:13:19,980 ideal person to investigate claims uh 324 00:13:22,970 --> 00:13:21,540 about something that you already believe 325 00:13:27,650 --> 00:13:22,980 in 326 00:13:29,389 --> 00:13:27,660 person Mick West because I do I mean 327 00:13:32,810 --> 00:13:29,399 I've been watching your stuff read your 328 00:13:34,550 --> 00:13:32,820 book like I mean people say let's see I 329 00:13:36,949 --> 00:13:34,560 you know as soon as you're by the way 330 00:13:38,569 --> 00:13:36,959 one of these people not unlike let me 331 00:13:40,790 --> 00:13:38,579 think like a Michael man he's a climate 332 00:13:43,730 --> 00:13:40,800 scientist friend of mine uh Peter Hotes 333 00:13:45,350 --> 00:13:43,740 who of course is a vaccine expert uh and 334 00:13:48,230 --> 00:13:45,360 Doctor a friend of mine you're in that 335 00:13:50,509 --> 00:13:48,240 category where if I tweet or retweet 336 00:13:53,690 --> 00:13:50,519 something that you wrote an army of 337 00:13:54,650 --> 00:13:53,700 people come to discredit you in this 338 00:13:56,810 --> 00:13:54,660 case 339 00:14:00,350 --> 00:13:56,820 um you deal with these people on a very 340 00:14:02,210 --> 00:14:00,360 regular basis uh you know one guy said 341 00:14:05,030 --> 00:14:02,220 well you know Mick 342 00:14:05,990 --> 00:14:05,040 doesn't have all the information I was 343 00:14:09,050 --> 00:14:06,000 like well 344 00:14:11,389 --> 00:14:09,060 who does like who what journalist does 345 00:14:14,329 --> 00:14:11,399 who has all of the information who do 346 00:14:17,210 --> 00:14:14,339 you possibly trust them 347 00:14:18,710 --> 00:14:17,220 yeah well what I do is look at the 348 00:14:20,449 --> 00:14:18,720 information that's actually available 349 00:14:22,190 --> 00:14:20,459 you know what's the public information 350 00:14:25,310 --> 00:14:22,200 that's out there you know especially 351 00:14:27,949 --> 00:14:25,320 things like UFO videos and in my 352 00:14:30,110 --> 00:14:27,959 background as a software engineer in the 353 00:14:31,790 --> 00:14:30,120 video game industry which may not seem 354 00:14:33,889 --> 00:14:31,800 like much like versus just a game 355 00:14:36,290 --> 00:14:33,899 designer people people say that all the 356 00:14:38,870 --> 00:14:36,300 time but you actually have a kind of a 357 00:14:42,290 --> 00:14:38,880 unique set of skills as a video game 358 00:14:44,930 --> 00:14:42,300 programmer like just the the simple Act 359 00:14:46,970 --> 00:14:44,940 of making a 3D object display and a 2d 360 00:14:49,069 --> 00:14:46,980 screen is the exact same math that you 361 00:14:51,230 --> 00:14:49,079 need for analyzing UFO videos because 362 00:14:53,350 --> 00:14:51,240 you're taking a 2d screen and trying to 363 00:14:57,050 --> 00:14:53,360 recreate where it is in three dimensions 364 00:14:59,689 --> 00:14:57,060 and the simple physics that we use in 365 00:15:01,430 --> 00:14:59,699 video games is what you need to analyze 366 00:15:05,269 --> 00:15:01,440 things like the position and the size 367 00:15:08,090 --> 00:15:05,279 and the the the the the motion the 368 00:15:11,090 --> 00:15:08,100 acceleration of of objects in these 369 00:15:13,850 --> 00:15:11,100 videos so you know I've been doing that 370 00:15:16,490 --> 00:15:13,860 type of thing for 20 30 years and it 371 00:15:18,769 --> 00:15:16,500 overlaps with my my interest in UFOs and 372 00:15:21,530 --> 00:15:18,779 so I got pretty good at analyzing UFO 373 00:15:23,990 --> 00:15:21,540 videos and just along with that you know 374 00:15:26,269 --> 00:15:24,000 I'm naturally a skeptical person so it 375 00:15:28,730 --> 00:15:26,279 doesn't mean I disbelieve everything but 376 00:15:31,730 --> 00:15:28,740 it means that I I need to have I need to 377 00:15:33,590 --> 00:15:31,740 see the evidence for things and I think 378 00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:33,600 the biggest criticism that people have 379 00:15:38,870 --> 00:15:36,000 of me is that I don't listen to the 380 00:15:40,790 --> 00:15:38,880 eyewitnesses but I do listen to the 381 00:15:43,250 --> 00:15:40,800 eyewitnesses but unfortunately I also 382 00:15:46,490 --> 00:15:43,260 recognize that eyewitness testimony 383 00:15:49,250 --> 00:15:46,500 isn't the most reliable evidence and if 384 00:15:50,930 --> 00:15:49,260 we have hard evidence like videos we 385 00:15:52,430 --> 00:15:50,940 really should go and analyze that first 386 00:15:54,949 --> 00:15:52,440 and see if that actually tells us 387 00:15:58,850 --> 00:15:54,959 anything and then see how the eyewitness 388 00:16:01,730 --> 00:15:58,860 testimony fits into the context of that 389 00:16:03,350 --> 00:16:01,740 ah so well said I mean your background 390 00:16:05,230 --> 00:16:03,360 obviously it's kind of who would expect 391 00:16:07,730 --> 00:16:05,240 that you know but it's actually perfect 392 00:16:10,250 --> 00:16:07,740 uh in terms of understanding certainly 393 00:16:11,990 --> 00:16:10,260 these videos but you also seem to 394 00:16:13,189 --> 00:16:12,000 understand I don't know if you're 395 00:16:15,769 --> 00:16:13,199 self-taught or if you've referenced 396 00:16:17,870 --> 00:16:15,779 others physics when it comes to these 397 00:16:20,150 --> 00:16:17,880 videos you understand physics and you 398 00:16:22,670 --> 00:16:20,160 also really understand photography and 399 00:16:25,129 --> 00:16:22,680 video and how it works explain a little 400 00:16:26,810 --> 00:16:25,139 bit about how that helps you I mean most 401 00:16:28,670 --> 00:16:26,820 people see these videos I think you'll 402 00:16:31,009 --> 00:16:28,680 agree I certainly did 403 00:16:34,310 --> 00:16:31,019 um the ones from a few years ago and say 404 00:16:37,910 --> 00:16:34,320 this is completely unexplainable this 405 00:16:40,129 --> 00:16:37,920 has to be from some other world and then 406 00:16:42,470 --> 00:16:40,139 I read your explanation it doesn't mean 407 00:16:45,949 --> 00:16:42,480 I completely understand it but it's a 408 00:16:47,749 --> 00:16:45,959 pretty good explanation debunking these 409 00:16:50,629 --> 00:16:47,759 things tell me a little bit more about 410 00:16:55,310 --> 00:16:50,639 your understanding of physics and 411 00:16:58,249 --> 00:16:55,320 cameras and lenses as to how that helps 412 00:17:00,350 --> 00:16:58,259 you explain these videos especially away 413 00:17:01,790 --> 00:17:00,360 because they seem pretty damning yeah 414 00:17:02,930 --> 00:17:01,800 well it's gonna have a combination of 415 00:17:04,909 --> 00:17:02,940 things I've always been interested in 416 00:17:06,770 --> 00:17:04,919 photography I've had a you know a good 417 00:17:10,010 --> 00:17:06,780 cameras and so it was you know in my 418 00:17:12,530 --> 00:17:10,020 teens a very long time ago uh and the 419 00:17:13,669 --> 00:17:12,540 video look at you I can see the pores in 420 00:17:15,110 --> 00:17:13,679 your skin you have the best camera of 421 00:17:17,210 --> 00:17:15,120 any guest I've ever had the guy knows 422 00:17:19,850 --> 00:17:17,220 what he's doing go ahead sorry Nick it's 423 00:17:21,169 --> 00:17:19,860 uh uh yeah I I like the camera I have 424 00:17:24,890 --> 00:17:21,179 here I have a whole bunch of different 425 00:17:26,870 --> 00:17:24,900 cameras up on the Shelf it's uh 426 00:17:29,930 --> 00:17:26,880 the video game stuff teaches you about 427 00:17:31,669 --> 00:17:29,940 essentially animation uh animation of 428 00:17:32,930 --> 00:17:31,679 course is you you draw One frame then 429 00:17:34,490 --> 00:17:32,940 you go to the next frame you draw things 430 00:17:36,230 --> 00:17:34,500 in a different position but that's 431 00:17:37,909 --> 00:17:36,240 essentially what videos are videos are a 432 00:17:41,450 --> 00:17:37,919 series of photographs you get 30 per 433 00:17:44,090 --> 00:17:41,460 second or 25 per second or 24 or 29.97 434 00:17:47,150 --> 00:17:44,100 per second uh depending on the type of 435 00:17:50,330 --> 00:17:47,160 camera you're using uh and I understand 436 00:17:52,549 --> 00:17:50,340 how that works exactly because I do that 437 00:17:54,110 --> 00:17:52,559 I do that from the ground up when you're 438 00:17:57,110 --> 00:17:54,120 making a video game you're creating 439 00:17:59,270 --> 00:17:57,120 these frames from from information so I 440 00:18:01,789 --> 00:17:59,280 know how to take a video and then 441 00:18:03,289 --> 00:18:01,799 deconstruct it into its actual frames so 442 00:18:05,029 --> 00:18:03,299 I I can take you know this Frame here 443 00:18:07,190 --> 00:18:05,039 and this Frame here and I know if 444 00:18:08,930 --> 00:18:07,200 something's moved from here to here that 445 00:18:11,570 --> 00:18:08,940 indicates either it's moving at that 446 00:18:13,370 --> 00:18:11,580 speed or the camera is rotating by a 447 00:18:15,409 --> 00:18:13,380 certain amount or the camera is moving a 448 00:18:17,289 --> 00:18:15,419 certain amount or it's a combination of 449 00:18:19,610 --> 00:18:17,299 two or three of those different things 450 00:18:21,770 --> 00:18:19,620 uh and that's something that I think 451 00:18:24,650 --> 00:18:21,780 that a lot of people just looking at a 452 00:18:27,529 --> 00:18:24,660 video they don't naturally understand if 453 00:18:29,330 --> 00:18:27,539 you take for example uh in one of the 454 00:18:31,610 --> 00:18:29,340 more recent videos there's there's 455 00:18:34,250 --> 00:18:31,620 Middle East sphere which has been shown 456 00:18:37,430 --> 00:18:34,260 on TV quite a lot alongside Dave gresh's 457 00:18:39,169 --> 00:18:37,440 interviews it's like a silvery ball and 458 00:18:41,270 --> 00:18:39,179 there's this this video the cameras 459 00:18:43,490 --> 00:18:41,280 focus on a building and then this ball 460 00:18:45,650 --> 00:18:43,500 Zips into the frame and then the camera 461 00:18:48,230 --> 00:18:45,660 operator tries to follow this ball and 462 00:18:50,390 --> 00:18:48,240 it's it's Drone footage shot in the 463 00:18:53,029 --> 00:18:50,400 Middle East and so people are kind of 464 00:18:55,490 --> 00:18:53,039 saying oh this is a is a metallic sphere 465 00:18:56,630 --> 00:18:55,500 that's exhibiting a highly anomalous 466 00:18:58,610 --> 00:18:56,640 Behavior 467 00:19:00,470 --> 00:18:58,620 uh and you know you could kind of 468 00:19:02,210 --> 00:19:00,480 understand that interpretation if you 469 00:19:05,029 --> 00:19:02,220 don't really know much about how cameras 470 00:19:07,970 --> 00:19:05,039 work uh but when you start actually 471 00:19:09,650 --> 00:19:07,980 analyzing this particular video you 472 00:19:12,230 --> 00:19:09,660 first of all you've got to recognize the 473 00:19:14,990 --> 00:19:12,240 the cameras mounting it on an MQ-9 474 00:19:18,409 --> 00:19:15,000 Reaper drone which means that the camera 475 00:19:20,330 --> 00:19:18,419 itself is moving at about 150 miles per 476 00:19:21,770 --> 00:19:20,340 hour which you know it's not super fast 477 00:19:23,930 --> 00:19:21,780 for a plane but it's very fast for 478 00:19:25,549 --> 00:19:23,940 something moving over the ground and 479 00:19:28,490 --> 00:19:25,559 then you go look at you know this this 480 00:19:29,930 --> 00:19:28,500 metallic orb and see you know how big is 481 00:19:31,250 --> 00:19:29,940 this you can see you can see in the 482 00:19:34,010 --> 00:19:31,260 background there's some Telegraph poles 483 00:19:35,930 --> 00:19:34,020 behind it and it's about a bit less than 484 00:19:38,810 --> 00:19:35,940 twice the width of that which means that 485 00:19:39,830 --> 00:19:38,820 this this orb is only about 18 inches 486 00:19:43,250 --> 00:19:39,840 across 487 00:19:44,810 --> 00:19:43,260 uh and then you take the camera's motion 488 00:19:46,669 --> 00:19:44,820 into account and you see that the 489 00:19:49,250 --> 00:19:46,679 camera's moving in a certain direction 490 00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:49,260 and it Lanes Banks a certain way and you 491 00:19:53,990 --> 00:19:51,600 see oh look the motion of this object 492 00:19:56,270 --> 00:19:54,000 kind of mirrors your the expected motion 493 00:19:59,390 --> 00:19:56,280 of the plane and that all leads to the 494 00:20:00,890 --> 00:19:59,400 idea that this is not you know an orb 495 00:20:03,770 --> 00:20:00,900 but kind of zipping around all over the 496 00:20:05,750 --> 00:20:03,780 place this is just a balloon floating in 497 00:20:07,850 --> 00:20:05,760 the wind doing nothing really special 498 00:20:10,190 --> 00:20:07,860 and all the motion you're seeing is 499 00:20:12,470 --> 00:20:10,200 because you've got this super zoomed 500 00:20:15,890 --> 00:20:12,480 camera and that's another thing you 501 00:20:19,430 --> 00:20:15,900 learn about in video games is you know 502 00:20:21,409 --> 00:20:19,440 depth of field and uh field of view so 503 00:20:23,390 --> 00:20:21,419 we know that you can zoom in on 504 00:20:25,190 --> 00:20:23,400 something very far away and it gives 505 00:20:26,630 --> 00:20:25,200 this really weird illusion of Parallax 506 00:20:28,490 --> 00:20:26,640 and it makes things look like they're 507 00:20:29,990 --> 00:20:28,500 moving when they're actually not it's 508 00:20:32,870 --> 00:20:30,000 just the camera moving so all these 509 00:20:34,370 --> 00:20:32,880 things combined together yeah I can kind 510 00:20:36,770 --> 00:20:34,380 of tell what's going on in this video 511 00:20:38,750 --> 00:20:36,780 but it's kind of a little difficult to 512 00:20:41,950 --> 00:20:38,760 explain to people because people are not 513 00:20:45,049 --> 00:20:41,960 used to putting their mind into that 3D 514 00:20:47,210 --> 00:20:45,059 frame of reference so I don't know a bit 515 00:20:50,150 --> 00:20:47,220 of a challenge I think you just 516 00:20:52,789 --> 00:20:50,160 explained it well here but you're but 517 00:20:55,070 --> 00:20:52,799 that's not being explained in other 518 00:20:56,330 --> 00:20:55,080 places including by a lot of journalists 519 00:20:59,750 --> 00:20:56,340 that would seem who report this stuff 520 00:21:01,730 --> 00:20:59,760 out yeah and including by uh the people 521 00:21:05,090 --> 00:21:01,740 you think would know better as well it's 522 00:21:08,150 --> 00:21:05,100 it was a very surprising mistake that uh 523 00:21:11,029 --> 00:21:08,160 that Sean Kirkpatrick made the NASA 524 00:21:13,190 --> 00:21:11,039 hearing uh recently like he was showing 525 00:21:15,890 --> 00:21:13,200 you know a new video that I'd never seen 526 00:21:17,450 --> 00:21:15,900 before uh of of something that was 527 00:21:19,250 --> 00:21:17,460 initially 528 00:21:23,510 --> 00:21:19,260 um thought to be anomalous 529 00:21:24,950 --> 00:21:23,520 and you saw these three three dots on 530 00:21:27,529 --> 00:21:24,960 the screen they're moving back and forth 531 00:21:29,210 --> 00:21:27,539 like this and it looks really weird you 532 00:21:31,789 --> 00:21:29,220 know what's going on there and he 533 00:21:34,549 --> 00:21:31,799 explains it that this is just the camera 534 00:21:36,230 --> 00:21:34,559 moving and it makes the these objects 535 00:21:38,690 --> 00:21:36,240 look like they're moving 536 00:21:40,370 --> 00:21:38,700 and then someone asked him you know what 537 00:21:41,810 --> 00:21:40,380 are all these these little white dots in 538 00:21:42,830 --> 00:21:41,820 the background because you could see 539 00:21:44,090 --> 00:21:42,840 that they were moving because there was 540 00:21:46,190 --> 00:21:44,100 these white dots in the background that 541 00:21:48,950 --> 00:21:46,200 weren't moving and this was moving well 542 00:21:52,130 --> 00:21:48,960 as to that and he said uh uh those are 543 00:21:54,590 --> 00:21:52,140 stars I think those are stars but you 544 00:21:55,669 --> 00:21:54,600 know it was obvious to me that there 545 00:21:57,590 --> 00:21:55,679 were not Stars it was literally 546 00:21:58,850 --> 00:21:57,600 impossible for them to be Stars based on 547 00:22:01,430 --> 00:21:58,860 his explanation because he said the 548 00:22:03,350 --> 00:22:01,440 three dots were distant planes and they 549 00:22:05,270 --> 00:22:03,360 were all moving because the camera was 550 00:22:08,330 --> 00:22:05,280 moving but these these these white dots 551 00:22:10,190 --> 00:22:08,340 were not uh and I so I I tweeted 552 00:22:11,990 --> 00:22:10,200 something about it about how ridiculous 553 00:22:13,909 --> 00:22:12,000 this explanation was and then after the 554 00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:13,919 break he actually came back and said uh 555 00:22:16,190 --> 00:22:15,360 I'm not actually that sure about that 556 00:22:18,649 --> 00:22:16,200 anymore 557 00:22:22,610 --> 00:22:18,659 but he never even really fully retracted 558 00:22:24,169 --> 00:22:22,620 it uh so yeah you see a lot of that in 559 00:22:26,690 --> 00:22:24,179 these these these videos that they show 560 00:22:27,649 --> 00:22:26,700 with the other video he showed uh I'm 561 00:22:28,789 --> 00:22:27,659 not sure if it was at that hearing or 562 00:22:31,970 --> 00:22:28,799 the other one 563 00:22:33,350 --> 00:22:31,980 was a shot from one drone and there's 564 00:22:35,270 --> 00:22:33,360 another drone in the distance and then 565 00:22:36,230 --> 00:22:35,280 you see these other object Zip by really 566 00:22:38,390 --> 00:22:36,240 rapidly 567 00:22:40,850 --> 00:22:38,400 and he said this is something that we 568 00:22:43,430 --> 00:22:40,860 originally thought was anomalous so yeah 569 00:22:45,830 --> 00:22:43,440 the the task force was actually fooled 570 00:22:48,230 --> 00:22:45,840 by this this Parallax illusion at some 571 00:22:52,370 --> 00:22:48,240 point I think there's actually a lot 572 00:22:55,250 --> 00:22:52,380 more of this mistaken uh identification 573 00:22:57,529 --> 00:22:55,260 of anomalous Behavior then we actually 574 00:22:59,390 --> 00:22:57,539 think and so when they talk about you 575 00:23:01,669 --> 00:22:59,400 know these spheres are demonstrating a 576 00:23:03,350 --> 00:23:01,679 power ant anomalous Behavior 577 00:23:04,789 --> 00:23:03,360 yeah I'd like to see what they're 578 00:23:06,950 --> 00:23:04,799 actually talking about because their 579 00:23:10,730 --> 00:23:06,960 track record so far hasn't been very 580 00:23:14,570 --> 00:23:10,740 good that's uh shocking and 581 00:23:17,570 --> 00:23:14,580 and disconcerting to hear that experts 582 00:23:18,770 --> 00:23:17,580 at Nasa have a harder time explaining it 583 00:23:20,570 --> 00:23:18,780 than you 584 00:23:22,610 --> 00:23:20,580 do you have a job we're supposed to be a 585 00:23:24,590 --> 00:23:22,620 NASA expert though just to be clear that 586 00:23:27,169 --> 00:23:24,600 this was Sean Kirkpatrick who is the 587 00:23:28,789 --> 00:23:27,179 head of of Arrow the advance of the 588 00:23:32,270 --> 00:23:28,799 older main anomaly resolution office 589 00:23:34,610 --> 00:23:32,280 which is the Pentagon uh not NASA got it 590 00:23:37,010 --> 00:23:34,620 head of the pentagon's all domain 591 00:23:39,830 --> 00:23:37,020 anomaly resolution office 592 00:23:41,750 --> 00:23:39,840 uh and uh Harvard Professor Avi Loeb 593 00:23:43,789 --> 00:23:41,760 teamed up to write that these objects 594 00:23:46,490 --> 00:23:43,799 which appear to defy all physics could 595 00:23:48,850 --> 00:23:46,500 be probes from an extraterrestrial 596 00:23:52,310 --> 00:23:48,860 parent craft 597 00:23:54,890 --> 00:23:52,320 I mean how do we know that they are not 598 00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:54,900 I mean it's the it's basically that 599 00:23:59,149 --> 00:23:57,360 they're extrapolating science and 600 00:24:01,669 --> 00:23:59,159 science fiction there it's like how 601 00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:01,679 would you populate the universe if you 602 00:24:05,690 --> 00:24:03,360 wanted to you would you would send out 603 00:24:07,250 --> 00:24:05,700 these what you call Von Neumann machines 604 00:24:09,350 --> 00:24:07,260 which are self-replicating machines 605 00:24:10,850 --> 00:24:09,360 which which fly to another world and 606 00:24:12,830 --> 00:24:10,860 then they set up a base and then they 607 00:24:15,470 --> 00:24:12,840 replicate themselves and then they they 608 00:24:16,970 --> 00:24:15,480 make other little one or big Bond normal 609 00:24:19,490 --> 00:24:16,980 machines that fly off to other worlds 610 00:24:21,649 --> 00:24:19,500 this is a staple of of both science and 611 00:24:23,390 --> 00:24:21,659 science fiction so what they're 612 00:24:25,970 --> 00:24:23,400 basically doing there is kind of riffing 613 00:24:28,909 --> 00:24:25,980 on that idea it's it's nothing nothing 614 00:24:30,950 --> 00:24:28,919 special uh but then they mix it all up 615 00:24:33,049 --> 00:24:30,960 in a paper that actually is really 616 00:24:34,909 --> 00:24:33,059 talking about how if objects are moving 617 00:24:37,730 --> 00:24:34,919 very fast in the atmosphere it would 618 00:24:39,890 --> 00:24:37,740 create plasma and you say see them 619 00:24:42,110 --> 00:24:39,900 glowing and you'd hear Sonic booms and 620 00:24:43,909 --> 00:24:42,120 we don't see or hear that therefore 621 00:24:46,909 --> 00:24:43,919 maybe these objects are not actually 622 00:24:49,730 --> 00:24:46,919 moving as fast as they appear now that's 623 00:24:52,130 --> 00:24:49,740 that's a good point but they wrap it all 624 00:24:56,510 --> 00:24:52,140 up in this this Mothership seeding 625 00:24:58,909 --> 00:24:56,520 dandelions of uh of panspermia uh like 626 00:24:59,710 --> 00:24:58,919 seeding of planets it's you know it's 627 00:25:03,830 --> 00:24:59,720 weird 628 00:25:05,570 --> 00:25:03,840 um and I'm not sure if when I asked my 629 00:25:08,690 --> 00:25:05,580 last question when you said 630 00:25:11,630 --> 00:25:08,700 it could be that if you were being 631 00:25:13,970 --> 00:25:11,640 sarcastic or if you were being just 632 00:25:15,950 --> 00:25:13,980 generally I'm not being sarcastic uh I 633 00:25:17,330 --> 00:25:15,960 think it could be it could be what 634 00:25:18,890 --> 00:25:17,340 they're saying but there's you don't see 635 00:25:20,510 --> 00:25:18,900 the evidence for it yeah I don't see any 636 00:25:23,090 --> 00:25:20,520 evidence at all and it seems very 637 00:25:24,769 --> 00:25:23,100 unlikely uh that this would just be the 638 00:25:27,409 --> 00:25:24,779 hap happened to be the one moment in 639 00:25:29,570 --> 00:25:27,419 history that uh that alien crafter 640 00:25:31,250 --> 00:25:29,580 visiting this particular spot in the 641 00:25:35,210 --> 00:25:31,260 universe when we see no evidence of Life 642 00:25:37,010 --> 00:25:35,220 anywhere else in the universe uh it's it 643 00:25:39,110 --> 00:25:37,020 it's but it's not something that you can 644 00:25:41,149 --> 00:25:39,120 rule out all right you know you could 645 00:25:42,830 --> 00:25:41,159 think you know what are the odds for 646 00:25:44,930 --> 00:25:42,840 example that we are the only life that 647 00:25:47,149 --> 00:25:44,940 exists in the entire universe I think 648 00:25:48,350 --> 00:25:47,159 that's unlikely but I don't think it's 649 00:25:50,390 --> 00:25:48,360 something that you could actually rule 650 00:25:53,269 --> 00:25:50,400 out because it's it's a possibility 651 00:25:56,810 --> 00:25:53,279 because you know if it's just entirely 652 00:25:58,549 --> 00:25:56,820 random then we don't know what the odds 653 00:26:01,070 --> 00:25:58,559 of Life arising are and even if the odds 654 00:26:02,630 --> 00:26:01,080 are quite High sometimes you know in one 655 00:26:05,210 --> 00:26:02,640 iteration of the universe there might be 656 00:26:07,970 --> 00:26:05,220 one that life only arises once so you 657 00:26:10,850 --> 00:26:07,980 can't rule out things uh just because 658 00:26:13,130 --> 00:26:10,860 they seem unlikely so I always try to 659 00:26:15,409 --> 00:26:13,140 you know basically they keep a list of 660 00:26:17,570 --> 00:26:15,419 possibilities when I'm talking about 661 00:26:20,029 --> 00:26:17,580 what something might be 662 00:26:23,570 --> 00:26:20,039 you know if you you take say the gimbal 663 00:26:27,230 --> 00:26:23,580 UFO video is probably I think based on 664 00:26:30,529 --> 00:26:27,240 my analysis just a different plane it 665 00:26:32,690 --> 00:26:30,539 might be something that's moving in a 666 00:26:36,230 --> 00:26:32,700 really weird manner that's also kind of 667 00:26:38,149 --> 00:26:36,240 hot uh and that thing that's moving in a 668 00:26:39,890 --> 00:26:38,159 really weird manner might be an alien 669 00:26:41,750 --> 00:26:39,900 spaceship of course the distant plane 670 00:26:42,950 --> 00:26:41,760 might be an alien spaceship as well it's 671 00:26:45,169 --> 00:26:42,960 you know these are things that you can't 672 00:26:46,610 --> 00:26:45,179 rule out but since we don't really have 673 00:26:48,649 --> 00:26:46,620 any evidence of that and we've got a 674 00:26:50,810 --> 00:26:48,659 vast amount of evidence that humans do 675 00:26:52,610 --> 00:26:50,820 things in the world you know it seems 676 00:26:56,029 --> 00:26:52,620 vastly more likely that what we're 677 00:27:00,710 --> 00:26:56,039 looking at is is a human craft 678 00:27:02,149 --> 00:27:00,720 you shared a tweet from Eric Weinstein 679 00:27:05,710 --> 00:27:02,159 um I'm not sure who he is but I feel 680 00:27:08,870 --> 00:27:05,720 like he's kind of conspiracy guy too but 681 00:27:11,210 --> 00:27:08,880 yeah Eric is uh 682 00:27:14,149 --> 00:27:11,220 um isn't he problematic is a 683 00:27:15,649 --> 00:27:14,159 mathematician he's kind of like a member 684 00:27:17,029 --> 00:27:15,659 of the What's called the intellectual 685 00:27:19,669 --> 00:27:17,039 dark web 686 00:27:23,029 --> 00:27:19,679 right uh he likes asking questions he 687 00:27:25,070 --> 00:27:23,039 has a podcast called the portal uh where 688 00:27:27,830 --> 00:27:25,080 he talks a lot with with people 689 00:27:32,570 --> 00:27:27,840 and you know he kind of waded into the 690 00:27:35,029 --> 00:27:32,580 UFO world uh maybe a year or so ago and 691 00:27:38,210 --> 00:27:35,039 I think because he's something of a kind 692 00:27:41,810 --> 00:27:38,220 of a well-known online intellectual he 693 00:27:43,730 --> 00:27:41,820 got courted uh by by the UFO crowd 694 00:27:45,769 --> 00:27:43,740 probably probably the same people who 695 00:27:49,970 --> 00:27:45,779 who have courted Dave Crush 696 00:27:53,870 --> 00:27:49,980 and they promised him that they would 697 00:27:56,149 --> 00:27:53,880 show him evidence of basically crashed 698 00:27:58,130 --> 00:27:56,159 alien technology they were going to take 699 00:28:01,130 --> 00:27:58,140 him to a place in the desert or 700 00:28:04,190 --> 00:28:01,140 something this is what he says and they 701 00:28:06,169 --> 00:28:04,200 this happened a few times uh but as he 702 00:28:07,310 --> 00:28:06,179 described it it was like you know Lucy 703 00:28:08,990 --> 00:28:07,320 on the football 704 00:28:10,610 --> 00:28:09,000 you know here's the Charlie Brown in 705 00:28:12,110 --> 00:28:10,620 this scenario and they were always 706 00:28:14,330 --> 00:28:12,120 promising that he's going to get to kick 707 00:28:16,070 --> 00:28:14,340 the ball but every time he goes for it 708 00:28:19,070 --> 00:28:16,080 it was it was snatched away from him so 709 00:28:21,649 --> 00:28:19,080 he became a bit more uh cynical and the 710 00:28:24,529 --> 00:28:21,659 tweet that I retweeted was basically 711 00:28:27,049 --> 00:28:24,539 him uh warning about the current 712 00:28:29,450 --> 00:28:27,059 situation I'll just read it real quick 713 00:28:32,590 --> 00:28:29,460 um yeah and then he writes there's an 714 00:28:35,630 --> 00:28:32,600 enormous complex of unbelievably highly 715 00:28:37,850 --> 00:28:35,640 conserved narratives to which very sober 716 00:28:40,010 --> 00:28:37,860 people will personally attest this is 717 00:28:42,830 --> 00:28:40,020 but one of them I can assure you there 718 00:28:44,510 --> 00:28:42,840 are many others what is more they are 719 00:28:46,909 --> 00:28:44,520 seemingly not all consistent with each 720 00:28:49,010 --> 00:28:46,919 other this puts informants in conflict 721 00:28:50,029 --> 00:28:49,020 with each other what's happening now is 722 00:28:51,890 --> 00:28:50,039 that they seem to be Crossing the 723 00:28:53,870 --> 00:28:51,900 Rubicon of sworn testimony given under 724 00:28:55,970 --> 00:28:53,880 oath that means something will now 725 00:28:58,430 --> 00:28:55,980 happen but keep in mind one possibility 726 00:29:00,649 --> 00:28:58,440 is disinformation word to the wise 727 00:29:03,649 --> 00:29:00,659 demand hard evidence before giving 728 00:29:06,649 --> 00:29:03,659 belief there's a ton of quote smoke and 729 00:29:08,990 --> 00:29:06,659 mirrors out there intended to incinerate 730 00:29:10,029 --> 00:29:09,000 credibility you have been warned all 731 00:29:12,950 --> 00:29:10,039 right 732 00:29:14,450 --> 00:29:12,960 as a complicated a complicated thing so 733 00:29:16,310 --> 00:29:14,460 you know in the party's talking about 734 00:29:19,010 --> 00:29:16,320 his own experience where people have 735 00:29:22,130 --> 00:29:19,020 told him things and he he recognizes 736 00:29:23,570 --> 00:29:22,140 that there are variants in this you know 737 00:29:26,210 --> 00:29:23,580 and people within the UFO Community 738 00:29:29,029 --> 00:29:26,220 don't all agree with each other uh he 739 00:29:31,549 --> 00:29:29,039 did a uh kind of an interview with a 740 00:29:34,070 --> 00:29:31,559 physicist called Hal putoff who's well 741 00:29:35,750 --> 00:29:34,080 known in the UFO Community uh as being 742 00:29:37,250 --> 00:29:35,760 someone who makes these types of claims 743 00:29:39,470 --> 00:29:37,260 you know the exact same type of claims 744 00:29:42,289 --> 00:29:39,480 that we've had for decades 745 00:29:44,870 --> 00:29:42,299 and how putoff was telling him about how 746 00:29:48,769 --> 00:29:44,880 he could easily demonstrate psychic 747 00:29:51,289 --> 00:29:48,779 powers and and and uh 748 00:29:53,810 --> 00:29:51,299 um Eric was pretty much incredulous 749 00:29:56,810 --> 00:29:53,820 about this uh but you know this is all 750 00:29:58,190 --> 00:29:56,820 part of of this backdrop of all these 751 00:30:02,210 --> 00:29:58,200 different people who are involved in 752 00:30:04,610 --> 00:30:02,220 ufology and so I think he's because he's 753 00:30:07,070 --> 00:30:04,620 been courted by people he's been hearing 754 00:30:10,310 --> 00:30:07,080 a lot of different stories and one of 755 00:30:13,490 --> 00:30:10,320 those stories is the the whole UFO thing 756 00:30:15,169 --> 00:30:13,500 or at least part of the UFO thing is a 757 00:30:17,870 --> 00:30:15,179 disinformation campaign by the US 758 00:30:20,029 --> 00:30:17,880 government so when you hear a story 759 00:30:22,190 --> 00:30:20,039 about a UFO it's actually a cover for 760 00:30:25,010 --> 00:30:22,200 something else you know perhaps some 761 00:30:27,830 --> 00:30:25,020 kind of uh uh you know advanced 762 00:30:30,649 --> 00:30:27,840 technology test that we have or it's 763 00:30:32,810 --> 00:30:30,659 perhaps a cover for the the truth about 764 00:30:36,289 --> 00:30:32,820 UFOs you know perhaps the government 765 00:30:39,289 --> 00:30:36,299 does have uh secret relations with a a 766 00:30:40,789 --> 00:30:39,299 government uh of another star system 767 00:30:43,610 --> 00:30:40,799 which is you know one of the things that 768 00:30:45,110 --> 00:30:43,620 some people claim uh or perhaps Percy 769 00:30:47,810 --> 00:30:45,120 doesn't perhaps this is all smoke and 770 00:30:49,730 --> 00:30:47,820 mirrors some people claim that what we 771 00:30:54,049 --> 00:30:49,740 are seeing are essentially visitors From 772 00:30:57,710 --> 00:30:54,059 Another Dimension who are creating UFOs 773 00:31:00,409 --> 00:30:57,720 as kind of a smoke screen uh for for 774 00:31:03,230 --> 00:31:00,419 their existence or to do to do something 775 00:31:05,450 --> 00:31:03,240 for some purpose kind of a trickster uh 776 00:31:09,169 --> 00:31:05,460 scenario and this is people like like 777 00:31:11,690 --> 00:31:09,179 Jack valet who who is a mentor of Gary 778 00:31:15,470 --> 00:31:11,700 Nolan her and Gary Nolan is one of the 779 00:31:18,169 --> 00:31:15,480 people who is behind Dave grush 780 00:31:19,450 --> 00:31:18,179 so you've got these these overlapping 781 00:31:23,510 --> 00:31:19,460 narratives 782 00:31:24,590 --> 00:31:23,520 uh that are difficult to reconcile and 783 00:31:28,610 --> 00:31:24,600 that's kind of what Eric is talking 784 00:31:31,490 --> 00:31:28,620 about and he's saying you use caution 785 00:31:32,990 --> 00:31:31,500 and I would certainly advise anybody who 786 00:31:35,450 --> 00:31:33,000 is looking into this topic and is 787 00:31:37,850 --> 00:31:35,460 talking to anybody on this topic you 788 00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:37,860 know me included everybody use caution 789 00:31:41,649 --> 00:31:39,840 because there are a lot of conflicting 790 00:31:45,470 --> 00:31:41,659 narratives and they can't all be true 791 00:31:48,289 --> 00:31:45,480 and uh personally I feel the more 792 00:31:51,470 --> 00:31:48,299 extreme narratives are all nonsense and 793 00:31:53,510 --> 00:31:51,480 the the reality is much more mundane but 794 00:31:55,730 --> 00:31:53,520 what do I know 795 00:31:58,430 --> 00:31:55,740 a lot which is why I'm talking to you 796 00:32:00,889 --> 00:31:58,440 and I I share that I've always shared 797 00:32:03,409 --> 00:32:00,899 that but Having learned of your work and 798 00:32:06,529 --> 00:32:03,419 a few others you know on other subjects 799 00:32:08,750 --> 00:32:06,539 I think that's critical thinking I think 800 00:32:10,669 --> 00:32:08,760 that's logical what you're saying to 801 00:32:13,070 --> 00:32:10,679 come to that outcome you know he 802 00:32:14,570 --> 00:32:13,080 mentions uh and I know you know a lot 803 00:32:17,269 --> 00:32:14,580 about this the kind of competing 804 00:32:18,950 --> 00:32:17,279 narratives you know a lot of the players 805 00:32:21,889 --> 00:32:18,960 you've mentioned many of them in in the 806 00:32:23,149 --> 00:32:21,899 UFO world for years and I think what 807 00:32:26,090 --> 00:32:23,159 he's saying and what you're saying is 808 00:32:28,630 --> 00:32:26,100 they constantly debunk each other they 809 00:32:31,669 --> 00:32:28,640 can't there's not a lot of 810 00:32:33,710 --> 00:32:31,679 Synergy with their own theories they're 811 00:32:35,750 --> 00:32:33,720 they're often at odds and incongruent 812 00:32:37,250 --> 00:32:35,760 with each other is that is that what 813 00:32:38,990 --> 00:32:37,260 he's saying is that what you think what 814 00:32:41,810 --> 00:32:39,000 you said yeah no definitely I mean there 815 00:32:44,330 --> 00:32:41,820 are yeah the UFO Community has people in 816 00:32:47,330 --> 00:32:44,340 it who the UFO Community kind of Lords 817 00:32:48,950 --> 00:32:47,340 as Heroes uh but they kind of disagree 818 00:32:51,049 --> 00:32:48,960 with each other 819 00:32:54,470 --> 00:32:51,059 um like like take 820 00:32:57,169 --> 00:32:54,480 um George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell these 821 00:32:59,090 --> 00:32:57,179 are the people who are behind uh UFO 822 00:33:02,269 --> 00:32:59,100 video releases like the green triangle 823 00:33:04,430 --> 00:33:02,279 video and the more recent one of uh like 824 00:33:07,669 --> 00:33:04,440 five bright lights in the sky at 29 825 00:33:09,649 --> 00:33:07,679 Palms which turned out to be flares uh 826 00:33:12,590 --> 00:33:09,659 that you know that are being leaked to 827 00:33:14,690 --> 00:33:12,600 them by military personnel 828 00:33:18,289 --> 00:33:14,700 where they are big supporters of Bob 829 00:33:20,990 --> 00:33:18,299 Lazar uh Bob Lazar is is this bold 830 00:33:24,049 --> 00:33:21,000 figure in the community who claims 831 00:33:25,190 --> 00:33:24,059 basically exactly the same thing as as 832 00:33:27,169 --> 00:33:25,200 grush 833 00:33:28,669 --> 00:33:27,179 uh and yet most people in the UFO 834 00:33:30,049 --> 00:33:28,679 Community well aren't the same most but 835 00:33:32,690 --> 00:33:30,059 a lot of people in the UFO Community 836 00:33:34,490 --> 00:33:32,700 discount Bob lazar's testimony because 837 00:33:38,090 --> 00:33:34,500 it's it's just basically full of holes 838 00:33:40,549 --> 00:33:38,100 he made up stuff about his his academic 839 00:33:43,250 --> 00:33:40,559 credentials and things like that and he 840 00:33:46,430 --> 00:33:43,260 used to work in a in a whorehouse and uh 841 00:33:48,950 --> 00:33:46,440 it got arrested for for some type of 842 00:33:50,750 --> 00:33:48,960 whole house related activity and he has 843 00:33:52,850 --> 00:33:50,760 all kinds of dodgy things in his 844 00:33:56,450 --> 00:33:52,860 background which kind of like are issues 845 00:33:59,029 --> 00:33:56,460 with his credibility so you've got like 846 00:34:00,230 --> 00:33:59,039 a couple of the key players supporting 847 00:34:01,970 --> 00:34:00,240 him and you've got a lot of the other 848 00:34:04,149 --> 00:34:01,980 key players who just won't touch him 849 00:34:06,350 --> 00:34:04,159 because he's he's kind of Tainted Goods 850 00:34:09,290 --> 00:34:06,360 uh and so you've got these these 851 00:34:10,790 --> 00:34:09,300 different different narratives uh and I 852 00:34:13,010 --> 00:34:10,800 think you know it's 853 00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:14,930 it becomes like almost like you you 854 00:34:19,369 --> 00:34:16,800 Choose Your Own Adventure and it's like 855 00:34:20,750 --> 00:34:19,379 you right who do you believe which one 856 00:34:22,609 --> 00:34:20,760 of these these narratives do you think 857 00:34:25,369 --> 00:34:22,619 is is the correct one like there was 858 00:34:29,570 --> 00:34:25,379 there was one on uh on I think like 859 00:34:30,889 --> 00:34:29,580 4chan cropped up recently and it was 860 00:34:33,710 --> 00:34:30,899 this really kind of 861 00:34:35,810 --> 00:34:33,720 and an enticing possibility like the 862 00:34:37,490 --> 00:34:35,820 idea was that a an alien Mothership 863 00:34:40,030 --> 00:34:37,500 landed on Earth thousands of years ago 864 00:34:43,250 --> 00:34:40,040 and set up a base underneath the Pacific 865 00:34:44,750 --> 00:34:43,260 and set up a kind of a replication shop 866 00:34:47,810 --> 00:34:44,760 under the Pacific this kind of Von 867 00:34:49,790 --> 00:34:47,820 Neumann scenario and has been spying on 868 00:34:52,430 --> 00:34:49,800 Earth using these little metallic 869 00:34:55,669 --> 00:34:52,440 spheres for thousands of years basically 870 00:34:56,810 --> 00:34:55,679 well and and this is you know it's just 871 00:34:59,810 --> 00:34:56,820 it's obviously one of the more 872 00:35:01,550 --> 00:34:59,820 ridiculous scenarios per a bunch of 873 00:35:05,030 --> 00:35:01,560 people are like yeah this sounds legit 874 00:35:07,430 --> 00:35:05,040 this would explain a lot and yeah it's 875 00:35:09,170 --> 00:35:07,440 not that far-fetched compared to some of 876 00:35:11,270 --> 00:35:09,180 the stuff the the high level people were 877 00:35:12,910 --> 00:35:11,280 talking about like you know Gary null on 878 00:35:15,589 --> 00:35:12,920 uh talks about 879 00:35:18,230 --> 00:35:15,599 interdimensional beings yeah there's 880 00:35:20,630 --> 00:35:18,240 there's a lot and he Gary Nolan here is 881 00:35:23,329 --> 00:35:20,640 very interesting character he's uh very 882 00:35:26,510 --> 00:35:23,339 smart guy he's a professor and he's got 883 00:35:29,089 --> 00:35:26,520 lots of patents and he he works in uh I 884 00:35:32,329 --> 00:35:29,099 think computational immunobiology like 885 00:35:33,890 --> 00:35:32,339 so he does making drugs and uh you know 886 00:35:36,470 --> 00:35:33,900 Gene therapies and stuff like that all 887 00:35:38,750 --> 00:35:36,480 very you know great stuff uh advancing 888 00:35:42,170 --> 00:35:38,760 the health of people 889 00:35:45,349 --> 00:35:42,180 um but yeah he he's he's also in a UFO 890 00:35:47,510 --> 00:35:45,359 experiencer who had little little men 891 00:35:50,690 --> 00:35:47,520 visit him in his bedroom when he was was 892 00:35:53,349 --> 00:35:50,700 a child and saw UFOs and had experiences 893 00:35:56,390 --> 00:35:53,359 with entities kind of talking to him 894 00:35:58,130 --> 00:35:56,400 uh and and now he's he's part of this 895 00:35:59,990 --> 00:35:58,140 this whole thing where you know he's 896 00:36:03,349 --> 00:36:00,000 he's kind of um 897 00:36:06,890 --> 00:36:03,359 you know showing introducing Dave grush 898 00:36:08,450 --> 00:36:06,900 to people uh so it's it's yeah there's 899 00:36:11,630 --> 00:36:08,460 there's a lot of different a lot of 900 00:36:15,530 --> 00:36:11,640 different people in this the scenario so 901 00:36:18,770 --> 00:36:15,540 much of it seems again I am really 902 00:36:20,450 --> 00:36:18,780 haven't been that interested in these 903 00:36:22,670 --> 00:36:20,460 things frankly until I found your work 904 00:36:24,650 --> 00:36:22,680 because I think your book and your 905 00:36:26,810 --> 00:36:24,660 interviews really go a long way to 906 00:36:28,370 --> 00:36:26,820 explain so much of why people think what 907 00:36:29,690 --> 00:36:28,380 they think and how to debunk it and how 908 00:36:32,450 --> 00:36:29,700 to follow it up and I've always been 909 00:36:34,010 --> 00:36:32,460 into myth busting for sure but more 910 00:36:36,589 --> 00:36:34,020 importantly when it comes to things like 911 00:36:38,390 --> 00:36:36,599 your health and and other issues where 912 00:36:40,310 --> 00:36:38,400 I've been talking to experts for a long 913 00:36:41,870 --> 00:36:40,320 time but you're the man on this you're 914 00:36:44,030 --> 00:36:41,880 the guy on this and your book really 915 00:36:47,810 --> 00:36:44,040 went a long way to explain this but but 916 00:36:50,510 --> 00:36:47,820 that being said it does feel like 917 00:36:53,030 --> 00:36:50,520 you have to get to this the starting 918 00:36:54,829 --> 00:36:53,040 point the entry point for a lot of folks 919 00:36:56,990 --> 00:36:54,839 is the government 920 00:36:59,210 --> 00:36:57,000 the US government the Israeli government 921 00:37:01,790 --> 00:36:59,220 any government frankly 922 00:37:05,450 --> 00:37:01,800 they know these things they're hiding 923 00:37:07,849 --> 00:37:05,460 these things and and and I will never 924 00:37:09,829 --> 00:37:07,859 ever believe that I don't believe that 925 00:37:12,050 --> 00:37:09,839 human beings are capable of that and and 926 00:37:15,470 --> 00:37:12,060 for one reason because there's been 927 00:37:18,530 --> 00:37:15,480 complex conspiracies that that people 928 00:37:22,910 --> 00:37:18,540 you know ended up talking about you know 929 00:37:25,130 --> 00:37:22,920 from from uh Nixon everywhere like we've 930 00:37:27,710 --> 00:37:25,140 heard people eventually blow the whistle 931 00:37:29,870 --> 00:37:27,720 people eventually tell the truth you 932 00:37:32,569 --> 00:37:29,880 can't keep these secrets the people give 933 00:37:34,190 --> 00:37:32,579 so much credit to government agencies 934 00:37:35,870 --> 00:37:34,200 and by the way the last point I would 935 00:37:38,089 --> 00:37:35,880 say is not only does the government keep 936 00:37:40,310 --> 00:37:38,099 the secret it keeps it over Generations 937 00:37:43,250 --> 00:37:40,320 meaning something that happened 50 or 75 938 00:37:45,470 --> 00:37:43,260 years ago is being kept secret and none 939 00:37:49,250 --> 00:37:45,480 of the presidents know and none of the 940 00:37:51,770 --> 00:37:49,260 agency heads uh no and I feel like 941 00:37:54,770 --> 00:37:51,780 that's the entry point and if you if you 942 00:37:56,690 --> 00:37:54,780 believe that I say my personal opinion 943 00:37:59,470 --> 00:37:56,700 is well you've lost trust with me 944 00:38:01,670 --> 00:37:59,480 because it's not it's not how 945 00:38:03,530 --> 00:38:01,680 we don't work that way human beings 946 00:38:04,910 --> 00:38:03,540 don't work that way governments don't 947 00:38:07,069 --> 00:38:04,920 work that way they're not nearly as 948 00:38:08,750 --> 00:38:07,079 efficient and secretive as people think 949 00:38:11,150 --> 00:38:08,760 they might be what do you think of all 950 00:38:13,370 --> 00:38:11,160 that yeah I think that's true and it's 951 00:38:15,349 --> 00:38:13,380 not just the US government you know this 952 00:38:18,050 --> 00:38:15,359 this uh narrative is currently being 953 00:38:20,930 --> 00:38:18,060 played out is that other countries also 954 00:38:23,030 --> 00:38:20,940 have crash retrieval programs uh Russia 955 00:38:24,589 --> 00:38:23,040 has them China has the Britain probably 956 00:38:26,270 --> 00:38:24,599 has them and you know all these other 957 00:38:28,550 --> 00:38:26,280 countries they all know about it so the 958 00:38:30,109 --> 00:38:28,560 amount of people who would know about 959 00:38:32,210 --> 00:38:30,119 you know what's actually going on 960 00:38:34,550 --> 00:38:32,220 essentially like you know a shadow 961 00:38:36,890 --> 00:38:34,560 reality of Science and the entire world 962 00:38:39,230 --> 00:38:36,900 is just ridiculous you know science 963 00:38:41,569 --> 00:38:39,240 doesn't work like that how you can't 964 00:38:42,650 --> 00:38:41,579 really compartmentalize science so they 965 00:38:45,710 --> 00:38:42,660 don't realize that you know they're 966 00:38:47,089 --> 00:38:45,720 being they're being fed bits of UFOs uh 967 00:38:48,950 --> 00:38:47,099 and that's how scientific discoveries 968 00:38:51,290 --> 00:38:48,960 are made no scientific discoveries are 969 00:38:54,230 --> 00:38:51,300 made by hard work building on the uh the 970 00:38:55,730 --> 00:38:54,240 work of others uh it just doesn't really 971 00:38:57,050 --> 00:38:55,740 make any sense and then there's 972 00:38:59,329 --> 00:38:57,060 countries who don't have pressure table 973 00:39:01,250 --> 00:38:59,339 programs they do have uh like 974 00:39:02,690 --> 00:39:01,260 surveillance programs and they they spy 975 00:39:04,430 --> 00:39:02,700 on other countries and you know they 976 00:39:06,470 --> 00:39:04,440 would want to to expose something like 977 00:39:09,290 --> 00:39:06,480 this you know how do we stop like Iran 978 00:39:10,790 --> 00:39:09,300 and North Korea and uh and and other 979 00:39:13,630 --> 00:39:10,800 countries like that you know Pakistan 980 00:39:15,890 --> 00:39:13,640 and India like why aren't they uh 981 00:39:17,690 --> 00:39:15,900 involved in this there's just so many 982 00:39:20,569 --> 00:39:17,700 people that would be involved even if 983 00:39:21,950 --> 00:39:20,579 you would just take the us alone you 984 00:39:24,650 --> 00:39:21,960 know there would be tens of thousands of 985 00:39:25,609 --> 00:39:24,660 people that's entirely like needs 986 00:39:29,270 --> 00:39:25,619 separate 987 00:39:30,890 --> 00:39:29,280 um you know set of of people and now you 988 00:39:32,930 --> 00:39:30,900 know it's sure like now you could say 989 00:39:35,630 --> 00:39:32,940 somebody has come forward someone's 990 00:39:38,450 --> 00:39:35,640 actually you know broken the barrier but 991 00:39:40,130 --> 00:39:38,460 it we haven't actually seen that yet you 992 00:39:42,950 --> 00:39:40,140 know we've seen someone make some claims 993 00:39:45,589 --> 00:39:42,960 that somebody told him some things and 994 00:39:47,569 --> 00:39:45,599 now he's gone to uh Congress apparently 995 00:39:49,490 --> 00:39:47,579 he's given some testimony and they're 996 00:39:51,109 --> 00:39:49,500 going to look into it you know what I 997 00:39:55,609 --> 00:39:51,119 anticipate happening 998 00:39:57,349 --> 00:39:55,619 is that he you know you know as my best 999 00:39:59,089 --> 00:39:57,359 guess or anticipate happening is that 1000 00:40:00,650 --> 00:39:59,099 he's gonna say 1001 00:40:03,349 --> 00:40:00,660 we have alien remains at 1002 00:40:04,970 --> 00:40:03,359 Wright-Patterson Air Force Base and we 1003 00:40:06,170 --> 00:40:04,980 have these programs are studying and 1004 00:40:07,730 --> 00:40:06,180 these are the names of the programs 1005 00:40:09,349 --> 00:40:07,740 they're in this hangar 1006 00:40:12,109 --> 00:40:09,359 and then the military is going to come 1007 00:40:15,290 --> 00:40:12,119 back and say oh those are alien remains 1008 00:40:18,170 --> 00:40:15,300 that was a you know crashed uh you know 1009 00:40:21,470 --> 00:40:18,180 MiG-29 this was a a recovered uh 1010 00:40:24,710 --> 00:40:21,480 submarine this was a uh this was a a 1011 00:40:26,950 --> 00:40:24,720 satellite that crashed in Canada and the 1012 00:40:30,109 --> 00:40:26,960 reason why these code names 1013 00:40:32,510 --> 00:40:30,119 those are all foreign uh and that's why 1014 00:40:34,370 --> 00:40:32,520 it's being kept secretive exactly and 1015 00:40:36,230 --> 00:40:34,380 it's you know there are big programs 1016 00:40:37,310 --> 00:40:36,240 that do this there's there's you know 1017 00:40:39,109 --> 00:40:37,320 what we used to be called the foreign 1018 00:40:42,490 --> 00:40:39,119 technology exploitation Group which is 1019 00:40:46,370 --> 00:40:42,500 now called I think nasik nesic 1020 00:40:48,710 --> 00:40:46,380 and uh they they're basically a very 1021 00:40:50,690 --> 00:40:48,720 large organization that's dedicated to 1022 00:40:53,150 --> 00:40:50,700 uh capturing foreign technology and 1023 00:40:55,370 --> 00:40:53,160 studying foreign technology and reverse 1024 00:40:56,930 --> 00:40:55,380 engineering it both for defending 1025 00:40:59,030 --> 00:40:56,940 against it and for learning anything 1026 00:41:00,890 --> 00:40:59,040 that we can from it and these are top 1027 00:41:04,670 --> 00:41:00,900 secrets super dupers top secret we don't 1028 00:41:06,589 --> 00:41:04,680 want our adversaries to know that uh you 1029 00:41:08,210 --> 00:41:06,599 know we're studying their stuff we don't 1030 00:41:09,589 --> 00:41:08,220 we don't know that it was certainly 1031 00:41:12,109 --> 00:41:09,599 don't know that if we figure anything 1032 00:41:14,450 --> 00:41:12,119 out about it so this will be a very 1033 00:41:16,310 --> 00:41:14,460 compartmentalized programs and there's 1034 00:41:18,410 --> 00:41:16,320 some of these are Big programs when we 1035 00:41:21,950 --> 00:41:18,420 recovered that Russian submarine back in 1036 00:41:24,650 --> 00:41:21,960 uh I think it was like 76 that was like 1037 00:41:26,990 --> 00:41:24,660 something that cost uh like over three 1038 00:41:28,849 --> 00:41:27,000 billion dollars in today's money 1039 00:41:30,829 --> 00:41:28,859 so these aren't like small programs 1040 00:41:32,569 --> 00:41:30,839 these are Big programs with with lots of 1041 00:41:35,030 --> 00:41:32,579 people and you know if it was alien 1042 00:41:36,770 --> 00:41:35,040 technology that we were recovering the 1043 00:41:38,270 --> 00:41:36,780 amount of people and the amount of money 1044 00:41:40,190 --> 00:41:38,280 we'll be putting into this would be just 1045 00:41:41,630 --> 00:41:40,200 ludicrous because it's something that 1046 00:41:43,010 --> 00:41:41,640 you know would change the entire world 1047 00:41:44,870 --> 00:41:43,020 forever 1048 00:41:46,730 --> 00:41:44,880 yeah all we've got is like some guy 1049 00:41:49,609 --> 00:41:46,740 saying you know I think that these 1050 00:41:51,349 --> 00:41:49,619 programs here are doing you know alien 1051 00:41:54,109 --> 00:41:51,359 stuff and then the military is going to 1052 00:41:55,790 --> 00:41:54,119 come back and tell Congress secretly 1053 00:41:57,890 --> 00:41:55,800 because they can't reveal it to the 1054 00:42:00,109 --> 00:41:57,900 public that no it's not and then 1055 00:42:01,970 --> 00:42:00,119 Congress is going to be like oh well uh 1056 00:42:04,370 --> 00:42:01,980 yeah the military has told us this and 1057 00:42:05,810 --> 00:42:04,380 then Tim Bircher is going to say well I 1058 00:42:07,670 --> 00:42:05,820 don't believe them they're lying is a 1059 00:42:10,510 --> 00:42:07,680 big cover-up and then the whole thing is 1060 00:42:15,589 --> 00:42:12,770 it's what they're saying in this latest 1061 00:42:18,829 --> 00:42:15,599 I believe is that I think Rush is saying 1062 00:42:22,550 --> 00:42:18,839 this is that those agencies that reverse 1063 00:42:23,630 --> 00:42:22,560 engineer have captured Chinese Russian 1064 00:42:25,550 --> 00:42:23,640 sub 1065 00:42:28,370 --> 00:42:25,560 what they're doing is they're reverse 1066 00:42:30,170 --> 00:42:28,380 engineering these alien crafts and when 1067 00:42:33,730 --> 00:42:30,180 I hear that again not knowing anything 1068 00:42:37,010 --> 00:42:33,740 about physics or Weaponry or technology 1069 00:42:39,349 --> 00:42:37,020 my immediate response to that is it's 1070 00:42:42,650 --> 00:42:39,359 one thing to reverse engineer another 1071 00:42:44,450 --> 00:42:42,660 object built on planet Earth with the 1072 00:42:46,790 --> 00:42:44,460 same raw materials 1073 00:42:49,849 --> 00:42:46,800 it's a completely different thing to 1074 00:42:52,130 --> 00:42:49,859 imagine recreating or rebuilding a 1075 00:42:53,329 --> 00:42:52,140 foreign craft where you don't have the 1076 00:42:55,670 --> 00:42:53,339 same raw materials you can't even 1077 00:42:57,589 --> 00:42:55,680 identify what they might be again I know 1078 00:42:59,569 --> 00:42:57,599 nothing but it seems ridiculous to think 1079 00:43:03,710 --> 00:42:59,579 that you can reverse engineer 1080 00:43:07,430 --> 00:43:03,720 some spacecraft or object that was built 1081 00:43:08,930 --> 00:43:07,440 in another another world yeah certainly 1082 00:43:11,089 --> 00:43:08,940 not as easily as you could some things 1083 00:43:12,770 --> 00:43:11,099 if you capture a MIG or something like 1084 00:43:15,109 --> 00:43:12,780 that or a fifth generation fighter from 1085 00:43:16,609 --> 00:43:15,119 China uh yes you could you could you 1086 00:43:17,990 --> 00:43:16,619 could reverse engineer that relatively 1087 00:43:19,430 --> 00:43:18,000 easy but if it's something that's you 1088 00:43:21,710 --> 00:43:19,440 know 10 000 years or a million years 1089 00:43:23,510 --> 00:43:21,720 more advanced in technology then maybe 1090 00:43:25,309 --> 00:43:23,520 not but you could learn stuff from it 1091 00:43:26,990 --> 00:43:25,319 you could study it and you could 1092 00:43:28,609 --> 00:43:27,000 actually do experiments and you could 1093 00:43:30,650 --> 00:43:28,619 get results if you have something 1094 00:43:32,990 --> 00:43:30,660 physical you can actually you know 1095 00:43:36,109 --> 00:43:33,000 figure things out the claim is that we 1096 00:43:38,390 --> 00:43:36,119 have bodies of the aliens you know you 1097 00:43:39,770 --> 00:43:38,400 can do biological analysis you can see 1098 00:43:43,370 --> 00:43:39,780 you know what's what are these aliens 1099 00:43:45,230 --> 00:43:43,380 made of uh do they have similar DNA to 1100 00:43:47,870 --> 00:43:45,240 us are they in fact humans from the 1101 00:43:49,250 --> 00:43:47,880 future or another dimension so you there 1102 00:43:51,349 --> 00:43:49,260 are things you can do and you have 1103 00:43:53,030 --> 00:43:51,359 material analysis is part of it but you 1104 00:43:56,690 --> 00:43:53,040 know the the fact that the material 1105 00:43:58,430 --> 00:43:56,700 analysis is is the only evidence that he 1106 00:44:00,890 --> 00:43:58,440 said of alien this just seems ridiculous 1107 00:44:03,349 --> 00:44:00,900 if you have an alien craft that landed 1108 00:44:05,750 --> 00:44:03,359 you've got an intact alien craft that 1109 00:44:07,730 --> 00:44:05,760 you know supposedly do things and 1110 00:44:09,770 --> 00:44:07,740 there'll be things in it it's not just 1111 00:44:12,050 --> 00:44:09,780 going to be an inert lump of metal when 1112 00:44:13,069 --> 00:44:12,060 it lands it's going to be 1113 00:44:14,510 --> 00:44:13,079 um it's going to be something that 1114 00:44:16,190 --> 00:44:14,520 actually has some technology that you 1115 00:44:18,829 --> 00:44:16,200 can look at and describe 1116 00:44:20,210 --> 00:44:18,839 of course you know the the the good the 1117 00:44:22,130 --> 00:44:20,220 good excuse for that will be there oh it 1118 00:44:23,809 --> 00:44:22,140 is just in a lot of metal it's just like 1119 00:44:26,690 --> 00:44:23,819 some kind of intelligent meta material 1120 00:44:28,430 --> 00:44:26,700 and that's that's all that it is uh so 1121 00:44:30,710 --> 00:44:28,440 there's always an excuse for these 1122 00:44:32,510 --> 00:44:30,720 things right but you know if if all 1123 00:44:34,490 --> 00:44:32,520 you've got is an inert Lumber metal how 1124 00:44:35,809 --> 00:44:34,500 do you know it's alien it's just you 1125 00:44:38,109 --> 00:44:35,819 know it's gonna you're going around in 1126 00:44:42,050 --> 00:44:38,119 circles here we don't have good evidence 1127 00:44:44,150 --> 00:44:42,060 we have hearsay and Congress needs to 1128 00:44:45,530 --> 00:44:44,160 tread very lightly when it's dealing 1129 00:44:47,270 --> 00:44:45,540 with this well they want to tread very 1130 00:44:48,770 --> 00:44:47,280 heavily actually they want to get their 1131 00:44:51,050 --> 00:44:48,780 boots on and start stomping around 1132 00:44:54,109 --> 00:44:51,060 looking for the real evidence you know 1133 00:44:56,750 --> 00:44:54,119 this guy you know he's a 35 year old guy 1134 00:44:58,130 --> 00:44:56,760 retired from uh Thai from the 1135 00:45:00,829 --> 00:44:58,140 intelligence community 1136 00:45:02,630 --> 00:45:00,839 there are probably thousands of people 1137 00:45:04,910 --> 00:45:02,640 in the intelligence Community with the 1138 00:45:07,130 --> 00:45:04,920 same clearance or higher than him 1139 00:45:08,690 --> 00:45:07,140 why doesn't Congress just get one of 1140 00:45:11,210 --> 00:45:08,700 them and ask them 1141 00:45:13,730 --> 00:45:11,220 or guess like you know the head of the 1142 00:45:15,170 --> 00:45:13,740 Joint Chiefs of Staff and asks them or 1143 00:45:18,410 --> 00:45:15,180 get whoever's in charge of these 1144 00:45:20,750 --> 00:45:18,420 programs and ask them I mean presumably 1145 00:45:22,250 --> 00:45:20,760 that's what's going to happen but the 1146 00:45:24,170 --> 00:45:22,260 truth will out but because it's 1147 00:45:26,150 --> 00:45:24,180 classified we may never actually hear 1148 00:45:28,069 --> 00:45:26,160 what the truth is other than that oh 1149 00:45:30,230 --> 00:45:28,079 didn't really go anywhere I hope you're 1150 00:45:32,750 --> 00:45:30,240 wrong about that who who in Congress is 1151 00:45:34,849 --> 00:45:32,760 is pursuing these these leads and 1152 00:45:38,870 --> 00:45:34,859 trading quote heavily as you say 1153 00:45:40,910 --> 00:45:38,880 well uh there's a variety of people yeah 1154 00:45:43,730 --> 00:45:40,920 there's the Marco Rubio is one of them 1155 00:45:45,170 --> 00:45:43,740 he's he was the head of the Senate uh 1156 00:45:47,569 --> 00:45:45,180 Select Committee of intelligence I 1157 00:45:50,329 --> 00:45:47,579 believe uh there's there's other people 1158 00:45:54,589 --> 00:45:50,339 Mark Warner who's his Democratic 1159 00:45:59,930 --> 00:45:54,599 counterpart uh Senator Julie brand uh 1160 00:46:02,569 --> 00:45:59,940 has been pursuing it and Tim birchett as 1161 00:46:04,430 --> 00:46:02,579 Republican uh has also been very 1162 00:46:06,589 --> 00:46:04,440 interested in it but they all seem to 1163 00:46:08,630 --> 00:46:06,599 have kind of different takes and and 1164 00:46:11,329 --> 00:46:08,640 motives about the whole thing 1165 00:46:12,950 --> 00:46:11,339 uh kind of I think Gila Brand's thing is 1166 00:46:15,050 --> 00:46:12,960 about like you know supporting the 1167 00:46:18,530 --> 00:46:15,060 troops uh budgets thing is that there's 1168 00:46:20,510 --> 00:46:18,540 a vast government cover-up of of uh of 1169 00:46:24,050 --> 00:46:20,520 UFO visits that go back to Biblical 1170 00:46:25,670 --> 00:46:24,060 times and uh Marco Rubio I think you 1171 00:46:27,050 --> 00:46:25,680 know is just kind of 1172 00:46:28,970 --> 00:46:27,060 I don't know I don't think he really 1173 00:46:30,470 --> 00:46:28,980 believes it but he thinks that it's 1174 00:46:32,750 --> 00:46:30,480 something that you should look into and 1175 00:46:34,910 --> 00:46:32,760 similar with Warner 1176 00:46:36,349 --> 00:46:34,920 uh have they have any of them ever 1177 00:46:39,530 --> 00:46:36,359 reached out to you 1178 00:46:42,970 --> 00:46:39,540 no no no one no one high up has ever 1179 00:46:45,950 --> 00:46:42,980 reached out to me yeah 1180 00:46:47,329 --> 00:46:45,960 uh no because I I wouldn't expect them 1181 00:46:49,910 --> 00:46:47,339 to reply to me they'll just think I'm 1182 00:46:51,530 --> 00:46:49,920 some crank and I'm sure they get emails 1183 00:46:53,809 --> 00:46:51,540 from cranks all the time and it would be 1184 00:46:57,290 --> 00:46:53,819 kind of a waste of time and uh you know 1185 00:46:58,970 --> 00:46:57,300 if if if uh they want to you know if 1186 00:47:01,309 --> 00:46:58,980 they want to talk to people they should 1187 00:47:04,069 --> 00:47:01,319 reach out to people who 1188 00:47:06,290 --> 00:47:04,079 know about the topic not not me and get 1189 00:47:08,809 --> 00:47:06,300 these people to recommend you know who 1190 00:47:10,190 --> 00:47:08,819 should they talk to right and you know 1191 00:47:13,069 --> 00:47:10,200 my name might come up or it might be 1192 00:47:15,950 --> 00:47:13,079 someone uh like Seth schostak who was 1193 00:47:17,930 --> 00:47:15,960 you know former headed seti uh or you 1194 00:47:19,609 --> 00:47:17,940 know maybe even sean Kirkpatrick you 1195 00:47:21,170 --> 00:47:19,619 know talk to Sean Kirkpatrick and get 1196 00:47:24,230 --> 00:47:21,180 him to tell you exactly what's going on 1197 00:47:25,970 --> 00:47:24,240 or talk to the head of the NSA talk to 1198 00:47:28,190 --> 00:47:25,980 you know people who are very high 1199 00:47:30,410 --> 00:47:28,200 security clearances you're a 1200 00:47:31,970 --> 00:47:30,420 congressperson you get to do this and 1201 00:47:34,730 --> 00:47:31,980 especially the people who are on these 1202 00:47:36,230 --> 00:47:34,740 days intelligence committers let me go 1203 00:47:38,870 --> 00:47:36,240 down the rabbit hole all those people 1204 00:47:40,490 --> 00:47:38,880 have reason to protect the secrets 1205 00:47:42,230 --> 00:47:40,500 that's their job to protect the secrets 1206 00:47:44,690 --> 00:47:42,240 they're not going to tell you as opposed 1207 00:47:46,730 --> 00:47:44,700 to a quote whistleblower like David 1208 00:47:48,470 --> 00:47:46,740 grush who's left the government what do 1209 00:47:50,390 --> 00:47:48,480 you say to that we'll get the president 1210 00:47:52,730 --> 00:47:50,400 involved then get the president to go 1211 00:47:57,410 --> 00:47:52,740 and ask them they have to tell him if he 1212 00:47:59,210 --> 00:47:57,420 asks it's uh it's not impossible for 1213 00:48:00,290 --> 00:47:59,220 these things to be discovered there was 1214 00:48:02,089 --> 00:48:00,300 a big 1215 00:48:05,089 --> 00:48:02,099 um investigation called The Church 1216 00:48:07,130 --> 00:48:05,099 commission I think back in the 70s yeah 1217 00:48:10,430 --> 00:48:07,140 which you know it uncovered a lot of 1218 00:48:12,170 --> 00:48:10,440 essentially wrongdoing by by the CIA and 1219 00:48:14,329 --> 00:48:12,180 the intelligence community and there 1220 00:48:16,790 --> 00:48:14,339 were some reforms that came out of that 1221 00:48:19,670 --> 00:48:16,800 but if you structure things right you 1222 00:48:21,230 --> 00:48:19,680 can get uh access to these things yeah 1223 00:48:25,309 --> 00:48:21,240 people talk about 1224 00:48:28,250 --> 00:48:25,319 uh how Kirkpatrick Sean Patrick only has 1225 00:48:30,589 --> 00:48:28,260 title 10 clearance you need Title 50. 1226 00:48:32,450 --> 00:48:30,599 yeah so if you want things to move 1227 00:48:34,190 --> 00:48:32,460 forward give him title 50 clearance or 1228 00:48:36,109 --> 00:48:34,200 find someone with title 50 clearance 1229 00:48:37,609 --> 00:48:36,119 it's not like the there's none of these 1230 00:48:39,530 --> 00:48:37,619 people existing in the intelligence 1231 00:48:41,270 --> 00:48:39,540 Community right get one of them to come 1232 00:48:43,910 --> 00:48:41,280 before the Congressional committee and 1233 00:48:45,410 --> 00:48:43,920 and testify get one of them say well we 1234 00:48:48,109 --> 00:48:45,420 want you to look into these things that 1235 00:48:49,970 --> 00:48:48,119 this grush guy has just given us it's 1236 00:48:51,230 --> 00:48:49,980 it's it's gonna happen you know these 1237 00:48:53,089 --> 00:48:51,240 these things are going to happen the 1238 00:48:56,690 --> 00:48:53,099 only question is what is the public 1239 00:48:58,190 --> 00:48:56,700 going to find out is you know the most 1240 00:49:01,190 --> 00:48:58,200 likely thing I think is that really 1241 00:49:03,109 --> 00:49:01,200 nothing happens and things continue to 1242 00:49:05,089 --> 00:49:03,119 be debated in public whereas behind the 1243 00:49:07,849 --> 00:49:05,099 scenes it's just like oh my God not this 1244 00:49:10,490 --> 00:49:07,859 nonsense again right right yeah we'll 1245 00:49:13,190 --> 00:49:10,500 see uh Mick I could talk to you forever 1246 00:49:15,470 --> 00:49:13,200 I appreciate you joining me today I 1247 00:49:17,390 --> 00:49:15,480 highly encourage everybody to get your 1248 00:49:18,890 --> 00:49:17,400 book and follow you on Twitter I'll say 1249 00:49:20,450 --> 00:49:18,900 all that stuff on the way out thank you 1250 00:49:22,670 --> 00:49:20,460 so much for joining me man thank you